Help talk:Contents/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions about Help:Contents. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I had a look at the draft in progress today. It has no help desk links on it, something I've insisted on for a long time. Is there a plan to replace the help page with this draft, losing the links? -lethe ^{talk +} 01:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

We have essentially proposed that "Where to ask Questions" as the very first link on the page, would be a good compromise over duplicating them all here.

That seems the appropriate and usual place to direct all questioners to, and where they can determine what type of question they have, and hence where to go. It also draws attention to the "Frequently Asked Questions" link right next to it here at Help:Contents, and means this page is less overwhelming with possibilities. Hopefully, altogether streamlining and clarifying/simplifying the help process. Does that sound good?

Adding 1 or 2 more links to the Wikipedia:Questions page could also be a potential option. --Quiddity 01:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, my position is that there should be direct links to help desk and reference desk, and a link to a subpage with another link is not good enough. So I'm not happy about a "where to ask questions" link. But I think perhaps I don't have the will to stand up for this position any longer. If you and Gareth considered the issue and decided that you like it better with only links from a subpage, then I'm willing to cede the issue. -lethe ^{talk +} 04:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

They'd fit into a new row of the "help menu" table. A text paragraph between menu and TotD is too ugly, somehow integrated into the menu if you think it's necessary is okay. -- Omniplex 21:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

(just fyi, that's referring to this version) --Quiddity

Well it sure is quiet around here. I presume because university is ending for the summer, and summer is starting in the northern hemisphere.. Is it going to be low participation here until September, any long-timers know? and feedback in the 3 sections below this would be much appreciated. --Quiddity 02:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

• #1 verbose links in split bottom row
• #2 verbose links in right-column, short-title
• #3 concise links in right-column, long title, no duplicate "Questions" link at top
• #4 verbose links at top (from Gareth Aus)

I like what Quiddity tried with the draft page (option #2), to highlight the help desk and reference desk. They stand out noticeably from all the other links. -Aude (talk | contribs) 00:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I like these options. Still mulling over which is my favorite. -lethe ^{talk +} 00:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Kmf164, option #2 is my general preference layout-wise. -Quiddity 02:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I think option #3 is my favorite so far. I liked how the verbose links were put into the standard format. --Hetar 01:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I like #1 because it doesn't waste space. Also, getting riid of that intro (it needs to be rewritten) is nice.--HereToHelp 20:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Out if 1..4 I like 2+3 better than 1+4. Apparently there's an empty cell in the left column, does it wait for something? Maybe move the FAQ into this cell if it's really empty and not a side-effect of some table colour considerations. -- Omniplex 21:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Time to let go, isn't it? Ten minutes after one of 1..4 is installed somebody will start to modify it. IOU 2 €¢ :-) -- Omniplex 21:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

The left column is empty to visually highlight the help links. see Image:Wikipedia help menu screenshot.gif. I think the FAQs link needs to be at the very top for prominence.

And yeah, i'll implement it now. We'll see what feedback we get and tweak from there. It's too quiet with summer starting! -Quiddity 22:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

#1 is without any doubt the way to go. No wasted space, clear sections, clear links, important ones in the right place, well laid out. #2 shunts things around a bit, you dont notice the important links anymore. -- Alfakim --  talk  22:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

#1 is better because there are no wasted space. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 04:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I find the Help:Contents/Policies, conventions and guidelines page fairly unhelpful. It needs to begin by giving a general overview of Wikipedia's goals and what the policies are for, instead of the details of specific policies. Right now, for example, the first policy mentioned on the page is "Bots", which is useless to just about every newbie. Taking the introduction from Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines (possibly merging that in) would be helpful. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 21:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to try reworking what was there before the List-of inclusions, see how that works for everyone.. --Quiddity 02:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

(after reverting to this diff) I delinked the title, and removed all the previously chosen links, replacing them with the links from {{Policylist}}. Does that work for everyone?

Having those 2 "List of ..." pages inclusioned made the whole thing quite overwhelming, and prior to that the list looked like an almost random handful of the policies and guidelines. --Quiddity 03:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, at least it's not as crufty anymore, but now it's just a list. People still have to go two links deep in the Help to get to any actual policies. The new version does transclude into the "site map" much better, but I don't think being transcluded should be the primary intent of this page. It's unlikely you'll find a page that's good for fitting into the site map that's also good as a help page on its own. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 05:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Correcting for sitemap transclusion wasnt part of my motivation ;) What were you hoping/expecting to find at that page? A shortened version of Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines? I'd suggest that this is what Wikipedia:Five Pillars is for. If just a one sentence explanation, you're welcome to add/suggest something. --Quiddity

We could also change the listed examples from the {{Policylist}} selection (12), to those listed at Community Portal#Policies and guidelines section (20). --Quiddity 01:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that sounds like a good idea as well. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 04:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

feedback request on the following

The Help:Contents subpages are (at present) a mixture of plain list and defined list styles (see communication). The plain list style is easier to scan for "keywords" but more arcane; the defined list style is more explanatory but textually dense. I'm not sure if we're moving towards one of the extremes (or are happy with the current mixture), or who is responsible for the initial variety. (hooray for design by committee!)

I've been operating under the assumption that these Help:Contents pages are just that, a table of contents for the hundreds of pages we have. A wooden signpost erected at a crossroads, if you will. (interdimensional spaghetti junction...). Possibly this is a flawed assumption, in which case someone give me a new direction/metaphor to steer for please :) --Quiddity 05:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

A very elaborate woodensignpost that points out those roads for you, not just tells you what they are. But, more or less, you had it right.--HereToHelp 01:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you got this just right. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 23:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

If you're watchlisting this page, please also add all the subpages to your watchlist.

I watched Help:Contents/Editing Wikipedia change dismally over the last 2 days, with noone stepping in to fix it. (I presumme because after Goforit's splintering of Help:Contents, not enough people are watching the subpages.) ((I'll revert those changes now.)) Thanks. -Quiddity 19:06, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Good job, Quiddity! --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 20:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it's just me, but I had serious trouble finding my way to the help section for image deletion. Could it be added to the list? My personal take on the troubles facing a new account holder: [The plea.] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pia L (talk • contribs) 21:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC).

To clarify the above, I am refering to my difficulty in locating the instructions on how to make a request for image deletion, not the actual image deletion instructions. A link from the main help page to a section with a sentence or two explaining whether or not such a request is even needed, under which circumstances it is recommended, and whether or not the deletion process is automatic if your image is not correctly tagged and you don't list it for deletion on a deletion list somewhere, would have been great. Also: Thanks for all the work put into the help section! My lack if patience in searching for answers is of course not meant to reflect on all the wonderful people who work on the help sections. I just wanted to point out that it's hard to find answers to questions on the deletion process from the main menu. Pia 00:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I have added it to the Images and media section - but it is a link to the IFD page, not specifically a help page as such (I don't know if such a thing exists - the IFD page has the guidance at the top and information on how to list and images needed deleting). I have posted a welcome tag on your talk page Pia, as you don't have one yet - that lets you know you don't have to worry about typing out any name or timestamp, just type four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your message and it will automatically add your name and the time to the end of the post. Best wishes, SFC9394 01:00, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The IFD page is a good one to add. -Aude (talk | contribs) 02:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, SFC9394 & Kmf164. That helps a lot. I appreciate the link you added. I know shouldn't take up any more precious space here saying this, but I have to add: whoever came up with the helpme-request idea for the user talk pages is a genius! Best, Pia 20:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I have modified the image help links that are shown on Help:Contents, adding "Uploading images" and "Image copyright tags". Improper images (e.g. copyright violations) are frequent problems. And, for those who understand they can't upload copyrighted images, they too often have questions and confusion about copyright tags. To address that, I have also added relevant instructions to Wikipedia:Uploading images, as well as information about when/how to use Wikimedia Commons. Though, I think this instructions page can be further improved and better organized. -Aude (talk | contribs) 02:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Good work on the modifications! --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 15:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The left column is wider than the right. See Image:HelpcontentsinOpera.png. I'm using Opera 7, which I know is a bit old, but this a a public computer so I can't upgrade. Incidently, the Community Portal displays correctly. -- Gareth Aus 02:39, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Tried the page out with Opera 9 Beta - it displays correctly. -- Gareth Aus 05:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess that's obsolete, you did something two days later, probably it's fixed now (?) -- Omniplex 18:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

No I don't think it's fixed. I know the page displays correctly with Opera 9 beta, and now Opera 8 (as the public computer I mentioned above has just been updated). It didn't work with Opera 7 - probably not with previous versions either. Given it works with versions 8 & 9, it looks like this might be due to a layout bug in Opera. -- Gareth Aus 04:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Opera 6 and 7 are very idiosyncratic with their layout engines. They used a new layout engine for version 7, and only got it working really well by 8. opera 9 is just a buncha small upgrade to 8 (8.54->9). -Quiddity 07:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

My user page is all messed up--how do I know which symbols to use so that I can format things accordingly? And where are the templates for those signs people have on their pages (this user is a resident of, orthis user speaks english--) I copies a couple from other pages--but there are more than I can'tfind! Living large 00:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Is it OK now? —Argentino (talk/cont.) 03:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

You probably want Wikipedia:Userboxes – Gurch 16:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you--got it. Now another question (would be best if answered in my talk page--since I'm alerted whenever new messages arrive.) But, on my Watchlist, where someone has made an edit, it has a black {m} next to the page title/link--what does this stand for? I used to think that it meant an Administrator did it, however, it has appeared on several of my edits as well. Livin' Large 00:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

answered minor question on userpage ;) -Quiddity 06:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

They tell you when it's a minor edit because some people thing they're not important enough to look at.Dan 19:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

You could also try the esperanza userpage program :-) J-A-V-A 15:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I know this isn't the perfect place to raise this, but there is an emerging problem with the TOTDs. As you can see here, they run out on the 1st of July! This will leave red links in all the places where the TOTD appears (inc this page). To avoid this embarrassment we need to plan what to do now. I'm rasing this here as GFI has left after a RFC, so somebody else will need to implement whatever action is taken. --Gareth Aus 02:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Update: GFI has returned. -- Gareth Aus 04:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

And even if he leaves again, there are others of us who are watching the project. We certainly welcome, and need new tips on a regular basis, but trust me, its in no danger of running out of tips. --Hetar 23:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Don't worry. There are plenty of new tips in the pipeline, and all aspects of the continuation of the project are covered, including tip rescheduling. And in case we ever need it, we even have a template for the automated and infinite redisplay of the whole tip library (thanks to the programming efforts of CBDunkerson. By the way, he deserves your barnstars for this one: here it is...

Tip of the moment... Alphabetical list of articles Sometimes, it might be useful to look up a subject in the same way you would do so in a book—in the index. Wikipedia has an index. To use it.. click on the Special pages line of the Tools menu from the Lists of pages section, click on the All pages with prefix link at Display pages with prefix: type the beginning of the article's name into the box and press Go. You will see a list of all pages that begin with what you typed. You can reduce the number of articles displayed in this list by typing more of the name and pressing Go again. You can also find Wikipedia users in a similar way by changing the entry in the drop-down box labelled Namespace, from (Article) to User. Prior tip – Tips library – Next tip Read more: Wikipedia: Special pages   Become a Wikipedia tipster To add this auto-randomizing template to your user page, use {{totd-random}}

For further discussion (and participation) on the TOTD project, please post on the Tip of the day talk page. See ya there. --Go for it! 04:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:RedHotRadiators"> RHR</a>{{notwiki}} <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:RedHotRadiators">^talk</a> Why is this an invalid raw signature? --~=RHR=~ 13:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

OK it's sorted now, don't worry about it. //R_edH^otR_adiators ^talk 13:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I have request to the WIKI Foundation to help me start Wikipedia in language Kokborok (ISO 639-2: sit and ISO/DIS 639-3: trp).

Please guide to increase the volume of Wikipedia informations in Kokborok speakers so that they can also take the benefits of the knowledge base of WIKI.

Updated on 20 July 2006 --Borok 11:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The category browse bar header [1] should be kept because it makes the table look encyclopedic and like it belongs on the page. The page is named Help:Contents. I suspect that most people who use a computer already know what the word menu means, so I disagree with labeling the contents table as "Help menu." The page is called Help:Contents. The category browse bar makes the page useful to people looking for articles instead of just being for editors. Although the "Categories" and "A-Z index links" should be in the navigation box, they're not. The page is already named at the top of the page, so a better use for the header of the contents table is the category browse bar. It makes page the page more outward looking, giving help finding articles about something other than Wikipedia itself.--Chuck Marean 00:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

There was a disucssion on this issue here [2]. --Gareth Aus 02:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted from Chuck's integration of the browsebar [3], primarily because I believe we should keep only help pages listed here; but also because there are already an overwhelming number of links here. However the style was good, and the changes are definately discussable. I still suggest this would be a much prefereable alternative though (However, it would need overwhelming support in order to be added, and I have no time/intention of pursuing it myself) --Quiddity 01:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#A new Browse sidebar nav-box for discussion. Thanks. --Quiddity·(talk) 09:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to add a couple of people to this list but when i click "edit this page" only the header is displayed in the editing-text-box-thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_psychologists

You go to the entry of the article of the person you want to add/subtract and add/subtract the category to the bottom. You can look at one of the existing entries to see how this works. Stephen B Streater 09:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody know how I can show an image and instead of it linking to the image's file page to have it lonk to an alternative page?

In particular, I want to link the "Pixar" image to the "Pixar" page, and likewise with "Disney". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lincalinca (talk • contribs) 13:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC).

I'm afraid not. Images always link to their file page. (except in a half-dozen exceptions, like on the main page for the sisterprojects). --Quiddity·(talk) 02:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

"How to provide a link to a specific Google Search"

Does anyone else think this is bad advice? Urls tend the be unstable enough as it is, but a Google search... Also I have my doubts at committing ourselves to a commercial search engine like that. Shinobu 08:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. That tip seems quite odd. Wikipedia:Tip_of_the_day/August_7,_2006. Perhaps there is a normal usage somewhere within wiki that we don't know about? --Quiddity·(talk) 09:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It's useful for some discussions, mostly at WP:AFD. The external link part just sounds wrong to me though, a google search isn't suitable for the article space imo. - Bobet 19:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's quite useful for controversial AfDs. — Deckiller 22:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. This would be very useful in controversial AfDs. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 20:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - have had to use it myself for problems with notability. Does that mean we're still advertisement-free? -- THE GREAT GAVINI {T|C|#} 07:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Can anyone tell me where I can find a list of common CSS classes? Shinobu 08:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

At Wikipedia:Catalogue of CSS classes. --Quiddity·(talk) 09:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

When I see this link, I think that it will give me detail on how to change my signature, but, in actuality, I get redirected to WP:SIG, which tells me when to sign, how to sign, and considerations on how to not make my signature, but very little about how to actually make my signature the way I want. I find the information at Wikipedia:Customisation#Adding a link to your talk page and Wikipedia:Customisation#More complicated options to be more helpful to what I am trying to do. Any thought to either changing where the links go or to changing the destination articles accordingly? (BTW, as you can see, I was able to figure out what I needed, regardless.) --Brian G (Talk) 19:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Updated link per suggestion. --Quiddity·(talk) 02:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

if ya'll need a perl programmer. i'm in. ~whatever~ whatever 03:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

• Whatever, whatever. Or whatever you say... Seriously, I'll keep that in mind. Jcam 09:42, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

userfied: moved to user subpage.

Must confess I'm puzzled on the difference between Wikipedia: policy pages and help pages. There seems to be a bit of overlap. Williamborg (Bill) 06:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Policy pages state the official policies of wikipedia. Help pages may be very diverse. They may help you get started off, help you to upload an image, etc. etc. -- Lost^(talk) 06:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Allow me to add to this: Policies at Wikipedia is a matter of consensus, tradition, and practice. Help pages are more general in nature. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 12:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

This page is getting a bit too long and I feel that it is time to archive this page. If there are no objections over this, I shall be doing this within the next 24 hours. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 04:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I am about to create a wikipage for a Filipino singer named "Marielle". "Marielle" is the name that she uses these days although in the 1980s she was more popularly know as "Lilet" (Marielle's real name is "Maria Luz Lilet Jodloman"). People know her more as "Lilet" than "Marielle" so what I want to do is automatically redirect "Lilet" searches to the "Marielle" page. But how do I do this? Do I create a separate "Lilet" page and put the redirect code there? There is no previous "Lilet" page of any sort for me to disambiguate from. Doberdog 04:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)Doberdog

Answered at userpage. -Quiddity 04:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I tried to post a pic which I captured from a DVD on my computer for the Tokyo Tower, a fiction section, I have the anime cartoon Tokyo Tower picture from the X the movie which are from CLAMP. When I posted this "

" but the picture does not appear in the article, only the image page. I wonder what is the problem?

The image is there along with all other images that you have uploaded. but you have uploaded them under the wrong license. Please use {{screenshot}} as the license and also give a fair use rationale. Else the images are liable to be deleted -- Lost^(talk) 07:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it'd be really helpful to have a section on this page for references (or a link that points to the reference tag section). There seem to be a couple different tags that can be used, and I always have trouble finding the page. Especially since there are many articles with no citations or references, having a link on this info page to how to make references and do citations might help with the that. --MPW 22:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Good thought. I've added Wikipedia:Citing sources as one of the examples under "Links". --Quiddity 23:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Please, please, please: Some-body set up a system where-by editors can type in key-words to search the help and related pages. I simply cannot find things that I know exist, e.g., the list of recently deleted articles. Yours in extreme Wik frustration, Kdammers 09:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I have the same request. How do we easily find articles containing key-words? I see Kdammers hasn't gotten an answer. Is this the wrong place to ask, perhaps. --Profero 20:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I found this tool!!. --Profero 22:32, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Internal pages are searchable! At the bottom of the search results page are checkboxes eg. The grandparent of the 1st result contains what I'd guess you were looking for - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#Old discussions.

You can customize which checkboxes are selected by default, in your user preferences (Help:Preferences). :) --Quiddity 01:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... how do I do an Infobox on my user-article? -King SweaterHead

The easiest way is to copy someone/somewhere else's design, and then change them to your own info and taste. Poke at things 'till you understand how they work :) --Quiddity 01:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

DUH! Im an idiot! Thanks Quiddity! -King SweaterHead

OK I got one on my user page but... how do I add more lines to it? -King SweaterHead

I thought you meant copying from someone else's userpage. Tweaking an actual infobox template is much more complicated. I'd suggest you ask at Wikipedia:New contributors' help page. (This page is just for discussing the Help:Contents page itself) Thanks :) --Quiddity 18:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I have manually updated Help:Reverting off of the master. There is an odd issue with the template at the bottom, Template:Ph:Reverting, which contained some outdated information on the old page. Specifically it told users to exactly mimick the admin rollback edit summary when reverting, something that every rollback emulation consciously avoids. On Meta, m:Template:Ph:Reverting, the template at the bottom of the article here, is a redirect to m:Template:Ph:CheckUser and has no content, so the template here appears to have been generated on en. Meanwhile on meta, m:Help:Reverting has m:Template:H:f Help at the bottom, which contains nav help. I couldn't figure out if I should paste m:Template:H:f Help into Template:Ph:Reverting, so have simply blanked it so we aren't telling the new users bad info. I'm sure someone has a clear idea of why this isn't being updated and how it's supposed to fit together, so I leave it to those more knowledgeable than I. - BanyanTree 23:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The nav links were deleted in [4]. Perhaps they should be restored.--Patrick 14:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I would like to add a picture in the article Tim Moore (comedian); the picture of course would be that of Tim Moore. I know there are some on the Internet which are in the public domain and I also have a picture of my own of him which I could send to you. My grandmother was his widow, so I have a lot of pictures of him to select one from. Can this be done on Wikipedia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Barry Moreno (talk • contribs) .

Sure, that would be great! Take a look at Wikipedia:Uploading images for help in how to do that. Rfrisbie^talk 17:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)